Jim's model, and his insights, show his experience in Parliament, and his experience of its problems. Jim wrote, in response to Simon, regarding Wilson Tuckey : > Simon's comments are true if you look at what Wilson Tuckey said. This > should not stop us from recognising his positive contribution to our > public campaign. Certain powers would be useful over police (eg. > traffic, accountability health (eg. work now done by local boards and > local govt) and education (eg. subject input related to local > environment, social, industry and employment issues)- in my view if: > 1. Councils - or whatever they may be called - were larger and based on > boundaries that permit full time membership (something like the size of > Brisbane City, the ACT, Tasmania, the NT. Otherwise they are > corruptible, especially in developing areas. > 2. Local government were represented in the Senate in place of the > states - otherwise local government would have too little power and > therefore would be less responsible. My idea is that each local > government has a small proportion of Senators who serve at both local > and national levels - no time for estimates committees but the House of > Reps could handle estimates. > 3. The use of joint parliamentary sittings in the national parliament > to deal with unresolved issues. This would be better than the huge > array of ministerial councils and legal battles now occurring. Jim's principles are : > 1. International and national pressures demand the existence of strong > neighbourhoods > 2. The lack of community involvement in decision making can be reversed > through strengthening neighbourhoods. > 3. If neighbourhoods are to be really strong we need one powerful local > government system, with layers of elected persons from neighbourhood to the > National Parliament. > My model has an elected full time congress executive in each 'region' (a > metropolis is one region and other regions are based on community of > interest and catchment issues). The size of the executive to be > determined on a population basis. The executive consists of persons > elected as Senators (say one or two in the 25,000 areas and up to 8 for > Sydney and Melbourne) and persons elected as members. > The Senators attend both congress executive and the Senate in the > National Parliament (not onerous). The members attend both the congress > executive and locality meetings with elected and honorary Mayors and > deputies. The deputies and/or wardens are elected by neighbourhoods ( > say 100 to 1000 households each) and the Mayor by the whole locality - > eg. Bundaberg, Ballarat, Berrigan,Broome. > A Congress of the whole region can meet annually and the rules could > oblige the executive to consider all congressional recommendations but > the power must be with the full time executive. Delegation of powers to > localities may occur but must be subject to the Executive unless > subject to something like citizen initiated referenda - initiated by > ballot not signatures on paper. Jim notes he has a paper "shared government" detailing his model. Further, Jim's model includes the notion of "functional representation". This is discussed further on, for the moment we focus on Senate representation. I now include a set of questions from Charles. Jim's replies are indicated as >, Charles' background (where applicable) as >> How many members from each region - apart from Senators? > If the congress executive is run like a local council - which I prefer - > I believe that a region of up to 100,000 could have 5 members and two > senators on their executive. Sydney may have about 40 members and 8 > senators each. Tasmania may have 25 members and 3 senators. > If the adversarial system is applied - 'government' and 'opposition'with > ministers - the numbers in the smaller populated regions would need to > be at least 17 and possibly 21 to work. If the local council structure > applies we would need to answer or deal with Senator John Cherry's > problem with Brisbane City Council allegedly abusing the closed > committee system and providing little constructive public debate but > that can be done constitutionally. What are the roles, powers and responsibilities of each of the National Parl't, the Regional Executive, and the Localities? > The localities would elect deputies and a Mayor and possibly a deputy > Mayor. The appointments are designed to show people that there is an > elected local person who is a direct link to all of government. There > would be a requirement that congress executive members and senators, > where appropriate, respond to all representations by the deputies. The > mayor and deputies form an advisory council which may be given and > denied local responsibilities at the discretion of the executive - > infrastructure, services, social and environmental. Formal meetings of > the advisory council must include executive members on roster - ie not > all of them. The Mayors and deputies also meet collectively with the > entire executive, all of them as members of Congress, once or twice a > year where decisions by Congress are to be considered by the executive > at a later date and, if rejected, reconsidered by Congress once more. > Large cities may need to be divided into planning divisions for some or > all of these meetings (and for executive planning committee meetings). > The executive of full time members and senators is the effective power > of the 'region' (I like 'territory' better). There should be an elected > governor to chair the executive and Congress and a deputy - both of > whom should be members of the executive. Its powers should result from > nationwide consultation and, if possible, consensus. I suggest that > present local government powers with increased planning powers plus > certain powers over employment, industry, population, education, health, > defence (civil defence and emergency services), in fact almost every > area of government. For example: education curricula should primarily > be a national responsibility but must include an input - eg. to a > prescribed proportion of the curricula - relating to local issues eg. > environment, industries, culture in some primarily Indigenous schools. > The region should be able to make decisions on employment, unemployment > expenditure and given responsibility to disperse funds. A case can be > made to allow areas like Tasmania to have certain population, including > migration, powers within parameters set by the national parliament. > The senators are members of the executive but the executive should not > be able to direct the way they vote in the senate. Doubtless they will > recognise the interests of their regions unlike the present senators who > do not have to confront state bodies, only their parties. > In the national parliament the senate should exist as now - it could be > about the same size. The national parliament should be able to direct > policy but rejection of regional actions, where legally made, should > only be with agreement of the Senate, in my view. Budgets should be > agreed to by both the house of representatives and senate, using a joint > sitting if necessary. What voting systems would be used in the various elections? > I believe the voting system for senators and congress executive members > should be Hare Clarke, Robson rotation with one ballot paper for > senators and one for members - except that separate elections for > governor and and deputy governor should be by the preferential system. > Mayors and deputies should be elected by preferential system for the > areas they cover. What about financing for the various levels? > The regions may be financed either entirely by national parliamentary > decision - as above with the Senate voting on the budget in joint > sitting if necessary - or by giving the region certain taxing powers eg. > GST, rates, land taxes. Where the regional budgets are entirely > dispersed from the national collection and where the 2 national chambers > fail to agree, any necessary joint sittings making the final decision > should consist of equal numbers of senators and of representatives > members - eg. 2 committees, one consisting of all senators and one > consisting of an equal number of representatives meeting together in the > joint budget sitting. Do your 'Localities' roughly equate to current Local Gov't Councils/Shires? > No. My localities would be many more, eg. in what is now Bega Valley > Shire there may be Bermagui, Cobargo, Bega, Bemboka, Wolumla, Candelo, > Merimbula, Pambula, Eden, Towamba and Wyndham localities or there may > just be the 6 larger towns. Some present city LG areas would be broken > into many Mayors receive now. I see nothing wrong with honorariums to > the other local deputies as the savings from 'shared government' would > be so great. Do your 'Neighbourhoods' roughly equate to current Local Gov't Wards? > Neighbourhoods would be close to local wards in city LG areas but would > be smaller in country areas. A neighbourhood must be optimum to enhance > community power, responsibility in emergencies, responsibility towards > the community and environment and small enough to encourage physical > communication. Would Senators be able to find the time to properly administer regions ? >> I doubt whether 7 people (2 Senators and 5 Members) could cope with the >> workload involved in administering 'almost every area of gov't' in a >> region of 100,000 people; particularly as the two Senators are only part >> time given that they must attend the Senate in Canberra. > Having observed the machinations of the Senate I believe it would be > easy for Senators to serve in the Senate and on a regional executive. > When the late Lionel Murphy gave the Senate the Estimates Committees it > was because life was too quiet and boring. If the estimates committees > were transfered to the house of reps that would be plenty of time for > say 5 days a month on the regional body. Keep in mind the senators > would not be involved in the local area work. Could the neighbourhoods be "strong" and attract people interested in serving ? >> A basic aim of your model seems to be to increase the involvement of >> people through strong neighbourhoods and by having layers of elected >> persons from neighbourhood to the National Parl't. >> It seems to me that, if the role of the elected neighbourhood for a >> nominal honorarium) and have no powers and no budget except as might be >> handed out by the regional executive, the neighbourhoods will not be >> regarded as 'strong' and very few will be interested in serving. > I differ from Charles on the likely numbers who would take on > neighbourhood representation with an honorarium. I think interest would > be as high as involvement in local government is now. The neighbourhood > representatives would also have an input into the regional congress > meeting once or twice a year and if the executive members were bound to > meet locality representatives they would have to listen to the locals. Would proportional representation work effectively, particularly for regions electing less than 5 Senators or members ? > It's possible that Hare Clarke would not work for regions > electing less than 5. If that is so the Senate PR system could be used > - as in the ACT and NT. What about taxation and the financing of regions ? >> The financing of regions needs to be the subject of a focused debate. >> A reliance on the National Parl't will result in >> squeezed regions and the buck passing we currently suffer. On the other >> hand, regional taxing seems to me to be a recipe for inequalities and >> duplication of effort to the extent that there will be little if any, >> saving in bureaucracy. It seems to me that the national Parl't should >> have sole taxing power (with the rate enshrined in the constitution) and >> the regions should have an allocation of funds also enshrined in the >> constitution. Both of these could be changed of course, but it would >> take a referendum to do it. > I acknowledge the advantages of the national parliament having sole > taxing power and prefer that - as long as the regions are represented in > the Senate and joint meetings are used to decide disputed budgets. Should regional representatives influence the voting of Senators ? >> It seems your regional representatives cannot dictate the voting of >> their Senators and have no power of recall. This seems to go across >> your aim, Jim, of having 'layers of elected persons from neighbourhood >> to National Parliament' and seems to undermine the reasons for having >> them as members of the regional executive. > There is no way regions can dictate the vote of Senators as new > information may have to be considered. Constitutionally, now, it is > illegal for those outside the parliament to dictate the way > parliamentarians vote and legal cases have been mounted which verify > this. Those elected are still accountable to their parties as well as > their electorates. Under Shared Government the Senators will be > accountable at executive meetings where they will have to answer in a > much more public way for their votes than happens now. The parties will > be less of a consideration and the messages from localities and the > region much more of a consideration. Jim also made the following elaborations in response to Peter. C : > Whether it is 'precinct' or 'locality' or 'neighbourhood' we need an > avenue for local activity. > The ACT system is a good arrangement - for Canberra. Self-government > was minimum of government was given to them. As a result we have > problems such as a recent complaint from Tuggeranong Community > Association that the Chief Minister when asked to talk to them on any > date and time in July was alleged like to talk to that group either > there should be a mechanism whereby elected assembly members must > routinely hear local views. Also, Canberra is a natural regional centre > for the Snowy Mountains, Southern Tablelands and South Coast. If they > were included in its jurisdiction - as they should be - places like > Jindabyne, Braidwood, Bermagui and Gunning would need to feel part of > the arrangements. Hence my local approach via a Congress with local > representation. > The concept of the Australian Assistance plan of the 1970's linked > neighbourhoods to government. As secretary of our regional council for > social development I saw plenty of excellent initiatives come to > fruition - regionally, in Queanbeyan city and in neighbourhoods. The > abandonment of the plan could have been prevented by formal and > permanent links to government - as 'Shared government' seeks to do. > Small towns and districts are important and the message of people in > non-metropolitan local government must be heard. Their constituents > represent a very large proportion of our economy - a higher proportion > than their population numbers show. We neglect rural, as distinct from > large 'regional', towns and areas at our peril. Hence the > constitutional recognition of localities - which is more than we have > now. Max : >> I am finding that the only democratic right we have in Australia, is to >> elect into, a system of government that takes away our democratic >> rights. Jim : > If our democratic rights are taken away by change then it is to our > detriment. We can enhance democracy (improve the power of the people) > while seeking economic, social and environmental viability and while > ensuring efficient and honest administration. > Step 1; remove that unnecessary and centralist level of government - the > States. Step 2; upgrade local governments making them large enough to > improve scrutiny by elected representatives, small enough - and > connected enough -to understand what is going on in local towns, suburbs > and districts, powerful enough to have a say in national decision making > and flexible enough to form cooperative, linked partnerships with other > LGAs. > Those partnerships may relate to the Murray Darling Basin or to > transport issues or to health services. Distances are less important > these days and in 20 or 30 years people - most of whom will be far ahead > of us in communications - will wonder why we were so infinitely > preferable to what we have now. -- # Functional Representation Jim also spoke of "functional representation", with the house of representatives being elected based on profession : > Max quite rightly questioned the value of two houses of parliament with > geographic representation. I felt for some time only one house was > needed until I realized that what we do (our functions or pursuits) are > more important than where we live. > The Shared Government model does not have a House of Representatives > from regions but from functional constituencies. Thus we have one house > - the Senate - with representation from where we live and the other - > the House of Representatives - from what we do. What we do is becoming > increasingly more important than where we live and is more logical for > representation. It would straighten out the H of Reps occupational bias > towards law and the professions and would better represent where things > are happening - the economy, industry, peoples' pursuits. It would also > put representatives into parliament to represent the under-represented > (eg. construction, home duties) in place of lobbyists whose > effectiveness depends on the wealth of the sector they represent. > Academics in Canada, where the nation was told that over half of their > parliament were teachers and lawyers, are working on the concept. > Admittedly functional representation has been tried, rarely with > acceptance, but the problems are easily discerned and easily remedied in > this day of modern technology. > Apparently Britain's early experimentation with parliamentary democracy > had a component of functional representation but it was based on wealth > rather than involvement in the function. Under Shared Government all > workers, including bosses, in their function (or chosen function if they > have more than one) have one vote and the number of elected reps of each > function is proportionate to the people involved in it. > The Soviet Union also set up functional representation. The idea is > well explained by Wilhelm Reich: 'The mass psychology of fascism', > Touchstone, SBN 671-21790-9. 'Elections were not according to districts > but according to productive units'. > The weaknesses were: > 1. Having come from czarist dictatorship the people knew nothing of > participatory democracy and were unable to become effectively involved. > Stalin understandably saw this as rejection and gave them rule from the > top. This gives credence to the original view of Marx that capitalism > had to come before communism if the latter were to really succeed. > Australians are much more used to participatory democracy. > 2. 'Productive units' does not involve everyone including those on home > duties and those in pursuits not regarded as productive. Under Shared > government all functional sectors are represented. > Currently the Hong Kong legislature has functional representation. > Former system was an 'abomination' but goes on to say that > 'constituencies representing large groups were reasonably open and > clean'. His problem was that there were some very small constituencies > which were easily corrupted companies each with a trade organisation > could caste 20 votes'. Under Shared Government the smallest > constituency may be 160,000 with 2 elected members and each elector > would have only one vote. Everyone in an industry or pursuit would have > a vote. > Finally functional representation would be easy to administer and hard > to corrupt with proper use of IT. People could enrol, if necessary, by > a fixed time before an election indicating their pursuit or, if they > have more than one, their chosen pursuit. It would also be hard to > stack electorates, a phenomena sometimes suspected in single member > constituencies. Max : >> Very interesting concept but is it not the reverse of what we have now, >> where if all the people in the car industry got their act together could >> elect a senator to represent them in the senate. This does not happen >> because the vast majority of Australians have no interest in the >> political system. While we continue to have compulsory democracy as >> opposed to participatory democracy it will be hard to change anything. > It is true that the car industry is unlikely to elect people of like > mind, nor would the people of Adelaide. The people of Adelaide are > focused on where they live, who would best represent them and which is > their political party of choice. With functional representation the > people in the car industry - from management to the painter - would be > focused on what they do, who would better represent them and which is > their party of choice. Under Shared Government they would elect > Senators to represent where they live and Representatives to represent > what they do. What they do is becoming more important - hence the > proliferation of lobbyists hanging around the parliament representing > the car industry - many more than 30 years ago. Direct representation > is better than lobbyists and puts the onus on elected representatives to > make their point to other functional representatives. > Second, with greater communications opportunities between workers there > would be much more discussion and interest in how a workplace is > represented if, as in the case of the car industry, all those involved > in secondary manufacturing knew that collectively they were a > constituency. >> Why not have one house of parliament with half elected by each format? > One house with half elected by each format might work but my view is > that the government should not be formed from those representing the > local sector to minimise interference with local sector input into > decision making - the parties do enough interfering without also > involving other pressures such as responsibility towards cabinet > solidarity. The Senate would preserve that degree of independence and > keep the local sector at arms length from the executive or cabinet. >> When I get elected into this parliament representing the mechanic >> industry what is my likely role ? > If you were elected from the combined service industries you would be > answerable - along with others elected from those industries - to > workplaces either collectively or to a type of workplace, eg. car > mechanics. Tasmania and New Zealand can teach us the various ways of > representing multi-member constituencies. You may visit workplaces, set > up a chat line to your electorate office for workplace participants, you > may build up contacts in relevant unions (which would become more > effective) and/or employer groups (which would also become more > effective). In the parliament your vote would, as now, not be legally > tied to outside direction and you would enter debate as an elected > politician, perhaps with a party loyalty. >> Two elected members from a constituency, if they vote for and against >> then they are of no value and if they both vote the same then only one >> is needed? > I don't see anything wrong with two in a constituency - we have it now > in the Senate from the NT and ACT. First, the two vote the same way 70% > of the time. The second and important thing is in the committee work > including the government and opposition policy committees where those > two often ensure their territory is heard. In other words both > independently contribute to eventual decisions where it really matters, > in the committee work. Both territories are well and effectively > represented by 2 Senators each. Non-compulsory voting would be neither > more nor less relevant with a system of functional and geographic > representation. I agree that it is hard to change anything but after 40 > years of recognising the achievable I am now giving myself the freedom > of recognising the desirable.